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Talk:De-rendering
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't phantoming more commonly referred to when a vehicle appears to be in one place to a Client, but to the Server is actually somewhere else? (Ex: when one person does a hog stand and it falls over to some people, but in reality is up to the server) And no I'm not referring to an RC. It does follow the same concept, but in this case nothing is being remotely controlled. FemixZn 19:33, December 18, 2009 (UTC) :I can't attest to the usage of "de-rendering", but the technical term for what you're describing is a desynchronization, or desync. DavidJCobb 21:48, December 18, 2009 (UTC) ::Although that's true, you're missing the point. I've never called de-rendering phantoming, it has always been de-syncing that's phantoming to me. I just want it straightened out. Maybe phantoming could mean both, but I don't want this whole confusion over which it is. FemixZn 15:02, December 19, 2009 (UTC) :::My mistake, I meant to say "phantoming". DavidJCobb 01:00, December 20, 2009 (UTC) @Mator First of all... "Please think before you edit"? Really, dude? I put effort into my rewrites and whenever I add a good amount of content. I resent the implication that my revert (as well as the added content it contained) was ill-thought-out or half-assed. Second of all, the reason I reverted is because your edit (and I don't mean to be a dick, but): *Failed to bold the first mention of the phenomenon being described, and misused "emitted" in place of "omitted" *Incorrectly described the phenomenon as being exclusive to Halo. De-rendering (or some related variant) can occur in any situation where any game screws up on hidden surface determination. *Linked to separate articles about phantoming (Ghost Shroom (Phantom), for example). If a stunt causes phantoming, that phantoming should be described in that stunt's article. We do not need to separately document every instance of phantoming apart from the stunt that causes each instance. *Incorrectly described hidden surface determination as an attempt to save memory rather than an attempt to speed up rendering calculations -- there is a difference. My edit corrected the listed flaws, and the content I added gave a more comprehensive description of why hidden surface determination is necessary (and used by Halo), and hence why de-rendering is possible in Halo. (And IMO it did this, moreover, without going off on a tangent or describing too much unrelated information.) Now, I do not want to start a revert war, so if you want the article reverted, make a case for your decision. This is me giving my reasons; now, give yours. P.S. If this sounded confrontational or aggressive, I apologize. I sometimes randomly adopt an aggressive tone on the Internet when debating or disagreeing -- usually without noticing it. DavidJCobb 02:00, December 19, 2009 (UTC) :HEADERS. I'm going to delete this article if I don't see appropriate headers. I edited this article, along with PFR and those other articles I edited that day because I was trying to find out the format I wanted for them through the manual of style. I was linking to them in the manual of style as examples as well. Can you understand why it might frustrate me that when I'm trying to document the format that I want the articles in and I am installing it that you go about changing it back? View history and reinstate the headers I had used previously, or I will do it and protect the article. Thank you, Matortheeternal 18:18, December 24, 2009 (UTC) ::I am well aware that you own this wiki, but please make an actual counterpoint here (so that there is a record of it) before you start making demands. Yes, you own this wiki, but like every other member of the human species, you are not always right. This is why we discuss things. (I know we discussed it on Xfire, but that's just the problem -- I can't memorize everything we talk about. That would be a lot to memorize. @_@) ::Second of all, it may be a good idea to create example articles as subpages of the MOS itself. For example: Halo Stunting Wiki:Manual of Style/Stunt. Then, you can discuss the article standards on the MOS and link to examples, where users can see at a glance what the article should resemble. ::Third of all, the various phenomena and game mechanics that we are likely to describe (ranging from terrain to tags to -- of course -- de-rendering) are so vastly different that it may be better to keep the standards for them vague. ::(BTW tags may not be directly related to stunting, but I can make a case for their inclusion on this wiki: knowledge of how they work makes it possible to get exact values for weights, speeds, etc., of objects.) ::DavidJCobb 06:40, December 25, 2009 (UTC) :::I'm not threatening you, I just want to see this article having the appropriate headers. And, seeing as to the fact that I don't really have the time to do it myself, I am asking you to observe my version of the article in History and try to increase the similarities between the current copy and my own copy, a compromise, yes? Specifically: headers. Headers make articles more organized, and easier to understand, while making things more universal and easier to create and manage. Thanks for cooperating... Matortheeternal 03:35, December 27, 2009 (UTC) ::::Eh? I never even used the word "threat"... When I mentioned your admin status, I was more stating that even though you have the power to enforce any demands you make, you should still discuss your wishes and reason with people before using (or stating the intent to use) that power. ::::Anyway, the only difference in headers themselves is the names... IMO "Background" sounds more encyclopedic than "Why"... "Related Pages" is, in my revision, "See also", but either one could work (though I'd probably end up lowercasing the "P"). ::::As for the contents of those headers, my version provides substantially more information under Background/Why. I omitted the stunt links in Related Pages/See also, but that's because those articles don't even exist yet. I could perhaps remove some jargon, if you prefer, but if I try to get the article to exactly match your revision, I'll end up cutting out half of the article! :P ::::So honestly, I don't really see what the problem is. DavidJCobb 07:05, December 28, 2009 (UTC) :::::Trimmed the article. Wasn't sure about the marker bit, though -- de-rendering happens to terrain too, but I don't think they put markers on each terrain polygon... Is there a source I could check? DavidJCobb 17:17, December 29, 2009 (UTC) ::::::Terrain is not marker-based. But I have plenty of proof that vehicles are. Any modder can provide direct evidence. Matortheeternal 19:24, December 31, 2009 (UTC) In Halo 3 This error also happens to certain objects in Halo 3. Such objects are typically located outside of the level boundaries, and include: *The "dummy" Banshees and Hornets seen flying and (pretend) battling outside of the boundaries of Campaign levels, including c:halo:The Ark and c:halo:The Covenant. **They de-render when glitches are used to get the camera extremely close to them in Theater. *The interiors of levels, when glitching the camera outside of the map. **I am NOT referring to backface culling or draw distance issues. I'm referring to specific cases where backface culling should actually make the affected surfaces visible. *Random scenery outside of some multiplayer maps. *A special case: it is possible to fly the Theater camera out of the open roof in the last room in c:halo:Floodgate. If you look back at a previous part of the infected ship, you'll find that certain sections de-render as you fly around, or if you zoom in on them. And two example screenshots: #File:DJC-De-rendering_1.jpg #File:DJC-De-rendering_2.jpg They look odd because when you take a screenshot in Halo 3, that screenshot is rendered in blocks, and de-rendering will (or won't) happen on a per-block basis. Anyway, is this notable enough to warrant coverage in this article? It's the same glitch, just in a different game (of the same series). DavidJCobb 01:21, January 4, 2010 (UTC) :David, this information will be very useful for the wiki in the future, but right now I think the main focus should be on the first game in the series. When the wiki expands more we should then include stunts from other games in the series. You can put articles of the other games in if you want though, it's fine with me. FemixZn 13:33, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Got it. DavidJCobb 03:48, January 5, 2010 (UTC)